An interesting corollary—the slang term “man” - as in the Sixties “Hey, man, what’s up?” - derived from African-American disgust with the “boy” insult.
I found it interesting that you had the root *bo- along with baby-talk. We often put an -ee/-y sound on the end of pet names , especially as children. Could boy be an abbreviated version of bo-ee, maybe slurred together through use and accent?
Irish often refer to young men as "boy-o," which sounds similar to "buck-o" (or "buckaroo"). When I've heard or read these terms, they are used to remind the young man that he is inexperienced and has much left to learn about life.
It's the same in Arabic (the word is also in Persian and Urdu). The word 'Ghulam'/'Gholam' means servant/slave, but you'll find it as a literal name of people. e.g. Ghulam Ali, a famous Pakistani classical singer. It becomes obvious why someone would name their child 'slave'. Though it may also refer to 'slave of God', it prominently means, boy or young man/youth.
Something interesting is that the 'oj' in 'pojke' (Swedish) is pronounced 'oy', so 'pojke' sounds a lot like 'boy'.
Also the 'gazzo' in 'ragazzo' (Italian) sounds a lot like 'garçon' (French) and 'garoto' (Portuguese) starts off with 'gar' although the 'r' is different.
Indeed, it’s the same root, which is still amazing to see. It blows my mind when a word is nearly the same in two languages that diverged thousands of years ago!
I feel like among the words for close relatives отец is the exception actually. Consider:
Сын <-> Son
Брат <-> Brother
Дочь <-> Daughter
Сестра <-> Sister
(And you mentioned мать yourself)
Now the interesting question (and the one I'm too lazy to look up) is where does the link comes from. Is it Latin or is it just the common PIE heritage? I feel like these connections have nothing to do with Latin specifically. Russian and English words for brother and sister are related to frater/soror, but they sound more similar to each other. And then there are words for son and daughter which sound almost the same when the Latin would be just anything but that.
An interesting corollary—the slang term “man” - as in the Sixties “Hey, man, what’s up?” - derived from African-American disgust with the “boy” insult.
Boy, am I confused! 🥸
I found it interesting that you had the root *bo- along with baby-talk. We often put an -ee/-y sound on the end of pet names , especially as children. Could boy be an abbreviated version of bo-ee, maybe slurred together through use and accent?
On that baby-talk theory of "boy", it'd be a similar concept, just transposed back in time, when the nickname suffix was something like -ia.
Oh cool! I was just wondering, as I’ve no clue really. It was just what hit me from reading your article. Nice to know I followed along ok. 😁
Irish often refer to young men as "boy-o," which sounds similar to "buck-o" (or "buckaroo"). When I've heard or read these terms, they are used to remind the young man that he is inexperienced and has much left to learn about life.
The Latin 'puer' also has a secondary meaning of 'slave.'
It seems hard to find a word for "boy" in an ancient language that doesn't also mean "slave" or "servant"!
Fascinating. Thank you. When I saw Horn approach the gate, I thought, "Yay! Another story to animate how a word came to life!"
Writing those has become my favourite part!
When are we getting Colin Gorrie's original fiction ? Either historical fiction or fantasy that feels immersive and authentic 🙂↕️
Don't tempt me! 😉
it's really quite maddening that we don't seem to have any good etymology for either "boy" or "girl" (and probably won't any time soon...)
Yeah... but at least it gives me something to write about!
The mention of Scots made me wonder what sorts of investigations people might have made about a Celtic connection-slash-origin
Thank you!
Thanks for reading, Fred!
It's the same in Arabic (the word is also in Persian and Urdu). The word 'Ghulam'/'Gholam' means servant/slave, but you'll find it as a literal name of people. e.g. Ghulam Ali, a famous Pakistani classical singer. It becomes obvious why someone would name their child 'slave'. Though it may also refer to 'slave of God', it prominently means, boy or young man/youth.
Something interesting is that the 'oj' in 'pojke' (Swedish) is pronounced 'oy', so 'pojke' sounds a lot like 'boy'.
Also the 'gazzo' in 'ragazzo' (Italian) sounds a lot like 'garçon' (French) and 'garoto' (Portuguese) starts off with 'gar' although the 'r' is different.
"Pueril" still exists in Spanish as an adjective, meaning simple, stupid, childish.
To add to the complications, there are dialects in which "boy" means "bachelor."
This in part reflects medieval views that youngsters work for someone else and are unwed. When they grow up, they work for themselves and get married.
Claude is right! This *atta is the same root I wrote about in an earlier article: https://www.deadlanguagesociety.com/p/the-king-named-little-daddy?utm_source=publication-search
I looked up the etymology of отец recently as well, thinking the same thing. Same as English "dad"!
Hmm that's not Latin influenced, it's just the same root in PIE, *méh₂tēr
Indeed, it’s the same root, which is still amazing to see. It blows my mind when a word is nearly the same in two languages that diverged thousands of years ago!
I feel like among the words for close relatives отец is the exception actually. Consider:
Сын <-> Son
Брат <-> Brother
Дочь <-> Daughter
Сестра <-> Sister
(And you mentioned мать yourself)
Now the interesting question (and the one I'm too lazy to look up) is where does the link comes from. Is it Latin or is it just the common PIE heritage? I feel like these connections have nothing to do with Latin specifically. Russian and English words for brother and sister are related to frater/soror, but they sound more similar to each other. And then there are words for son and daughter which sound almost the same when the Latin would be just anything but that.