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Parrish Baker's avatar

“And if this regrettable lack in one of imperial lineage was beyond the comprehension of the simple, at the least the parson with his booklearning might have guessed it. Maybe he did. He was a grammarian, and could doubtless see further into the future than others.” - JRRT, Farmer Giles of Ham

Frey's avatar
Jan 21Edited

Scottish is closer to Dutch ( Frisian - Fries - ) “Kennen” is to know and consequently the Scots use it similarly. You only have to go to Edinburgh to hear the natives still saying “ ye ken?” which is an equivalent for - do you know what I mean or USA “ right?” . Canny is used a lot in modern Scots’ and it means knowledgable or clever but also comely or attractive and it’s used stretches as far down as Newcastle which is full of Scottish migrants. So uncanny literally means not known or not of this world. This is from a Scot herself!

Sallyfemina's avatar

Because of emigration, there are possibly Scots words preserved in American English that the English don't use. I dinna ken about Oz.

Icy Sedgwick's avatar

In Newcastle, 'canny' exclusively means lovely, pleasant, or 'a thoroughly good egg'. We never use it to mean clever etc. And 'uncanny' never appears in the Geordie dialect at all, unless we're meaning it in the Freudian sense.

Frey's avatar

Words often change their meaning when cut loose from their moorings. No surprises when canny becomes stuck in the context of bonnie in Newcastle. Words I used 29 years ago have also migrated in meaning when I return home from my foreign home. Can’t believe the words my large family are now exchanging with an accent that has also changed…. But thanks for sharing your thoughts 💭

David Cockayne's avatar

Does that mean that Scottish people going to, say, Leeuwarden in Friesland can immediately comprehend Dutch, or come to that, West Frisian? Having lived in that neck of the woods, I am puzzled.

Colin Gorrie's avatar

No, I doubt that Scots speakers today could understand Frisian today.

Frey's avatar

No - but lowland Scots has many of the same words and as a young girl I arrived in the Netherlands and watched a program which happened to be in the language of Friesland and for some obscure reason I could understand a lot of what was going on far more than I could understand in Dutch which I had just started learning and that is because there was enough context and shared words to put together a story based on the common ground.

WJC's avatar

Regarding the Beowulf kenning 'hronrad, it is as mentioned most often translated as "whale road". Tolkien objected strongly to this translation, and not merely for the word 'rad' being translated as 'road; he recognized that while it is the "ancestor of our modern word 'road', it does not mean 'road'...'rad' is the noun of action of OE 'ridan' and means 'riding'...it does not mean the actual track". As pointed out by Colin, he thought it gave an unfortunate sound-association with railroad.

Tolkien also objected to the direct translation of 'hron' as meaning 'whale'. He recognized 'hron/hran' as a word peculiar to OE, with the meaning of some kind of fish-like mammal of a dolphin kind, but "less than a real 'hwæl'". He quotes a description from OE that "a hron was about seven times the size of a seal, and a 'hwæl' about seven times the size of a 'hron'. He proposed that a preferable translation of 'hronrad' would be 'dolphin's riding', a place in the sea where "...you can see dolphins seeming to gallop like a line of riders". He also specified that in Beowulf there is used a separate kenning that is 'hwælrad' - 'whale riding'.

Frey's avatar

I am backing Tolkein - no competition

Jacques René Giguère's avatar

Se grimer still exist in French for either an actor or a woman getting made up. Especially in Quebec.

Sallyfemina's avatar

Quebec preserves many of the good old French words the French themselves have evicted from their language. So does Cajun.

Mary Catelli's avatar

How I remember how the *Blue Fairy Book* inflicted "The Black Bull of Norroway" on me -- a terrible thing to do to a small child who had no idea that the next story wasn't in English.

Juliet Wilson's avatar

Excellent article. There's still a lot of Scots spoken across Scotland and I know a fair few people who write poetry in the Scots. I agree with you though, there probably are no longer any monolingual Scots around these days. But then Scots (although actually a language) isn't spoken as a language these days, when spoken it's always mixed in with English, though some writers probably still write in 'proper' Scots.

Frey's avatar

Well said! Lest they forget…

Anke Klop's avatar

The connection of 'grime' and 'mask' is still to be found in modern Dutch. The word 'grime' means make-up for the theatre and film. The related verb is 'grimeren' and the related profession is 'grimeur'. Stock skills involve ageing actors, applying moustaches and beards - so a proper mask application in paint.

Sallyfemina's avatar

I wonder if that also factors into "grimace"?

Anke Klop's avatar

Well, I suppose it does. Sounds logical, doesn't it? And it's confirmed by the etymology.

Emmanuel Florac's avatar

Just came to remark that "grimer" (meaning "applying make up for a disguise or for theatre") is a perfectly valid verb in French :)

Miriam Lewis's avatar

I saw the "Wild and Majestic" exhibition at the National Museum of Scotland in 2019. It was an exploration of the romanticized view of Scotland and was beautifully put together.

Clara MacGauffin's avatar

Thank you! Since I just learned the German origin of unheimlich, this made me very happy.

Jacqueline W's avatar

Very interesting and entertaining. To help understand any Scots passages I encounter, I always try to "hear" it in my mind in the Glaswegian accent of my late step-grandmother.

Of course other Scots like Adam Smith and David Hume were simultaneously embracing the Enlightenment.

Murat's avatar

Amazing article, thanks! This one made me want to read the Ivanhoe once again, this time through a much-better-informed lens!

AZ's avatar

That bit about the Rs and Ls swapping is fascinating. I can't figure out the relationship between the two in my mouth, it seems random but it can't be

Alison Baxter's avatar

Discovered this a bit late but you might be interested in my post about Scots and its variants, specifically Doric. https://open.substack.com/pub/writingfamilyhistory/p/all-one-wool?r=30cqjp&utm_medium=ios

Andrew Currall's avatar

I don't think this is really correct. Scots is definitely not a distinct language from English, certainly not today. It *was*, historically, sure. Medieval Scots was very different from English. The Scots of Burns was somewhat different- maybe just enough to qualify. But absolutely no-one speaks Medieval or Burnsian Scots today. Modern Scots has homogenised (in both directions, as you point out) to the extent that it is clearly just a dialect. Pick up a Scots-English dictionary and you'll find that 99% of the "Scots" words in it are known and used by basically no-one in Scotland today.