American, born 1990 in New York City. Corn means maize, and I only learned about the UK usage in college history courses learning about the Corn Laws.
Since you mention the phrase "Indian corn," I'll add: when I was a kid, that phrase specifically meant corn cobs with lots of different-colored kernels, especially used decoratively (say, on a wreath you might hang on your door in the fall). I haven't heard it in years, though, presumably because of changing norms around what is and isn't PC to refer to as "Indian" (like how in elementary school we would sit on the floor "Indian style," but today children are asked to sit "criss-cross-applesauce").
Yeegads, now we've culturally appropriated their corn, too. What next? And what are we meant to call it, by the way? "Corn cobs with lots of different-colored kernels" is a bit of a mouthful.
You know, I’ve seen these but haven’t heard them referred to by name in years. I’m guessing “decorative corn” would be appropriate, because it’s nothing you’d want to eat.
I'm English and in my 40s and "corn" means wheat - "an ear of corn", for example. "Sweetcorn" is maize, although I'll allow "corn-on-the-cob". I don't understand why British English speakers need to say "corn" when they mean "sweetcorn". Just say flipping "sweetcorn" - you're not an American! And please don't get me started on British people saying "gotten". Or the fact that the sodding Guardian - a British newspaper - ran an article about shed wars in "back yards". It's a back garden!! A yard is specifically the paved area immediately by the back door behind terraces.
I'm not just being all "Yanks go home" about it, nor feeling annoyed about the homogenisation of language, but because there are problems with meaning and understanding. If someone British says they're "going to the bathroom", I assume they're going to brush their teeth or shower. We have a plethora of ways to say you're going to the loo/toilet/lav/smallest room, with lots of glorious euphemisms - going for a tinkle, splashing your boots etc. let's not lose that wonderful linguistic variation under the jugganaut of imported US English. It actually makes me sad too that children are being brought up by the telly and YouTube. :-/
I'm from the US, in the northern part of the corn-growing region (maize). We have two expressions for corn: sweetcorn and field corn. Sweetcorn is the kind that you eat, like corn on the cob. Field corn is the kind that is grown for animal feed. It has quite a different appearance if you look closely at the kernels. I'm curious what your expression is for field corn, or if you don't have an expression for it because you don't use it?
It means the grains of wheat/cereal crop at the top of the stem. So presumably "ear of corn" travelled to the US and the change in meaning of "corn" from cereal grain to maize affected that expression as well!
Here in North Derbyshire, corn is wheat, and actually, grain more generally. Sweetcorn, though tasty enough, is some corporate capitalist aberration. I am unsurprised that our southern brethren have been colonised by the Great Satan. We may be poor but at least we are pure.
(I am a 74 year old English women-for context). Corn for me evokes the image of fields of golden cereals of unspecified type, swaying gently in waves in the wind, before being harvested. It could be barley, wheat, rye, oats or other rarer types of cereal, but definitely not maize (which I called sweetcorn as a child) as it doesn’t look the same at all.
FWIW, growing up in Pennsylvania, while “corn” meant maize in general. But usually in the context of a rural community, we’d say, “sweetcorn” for corn meant for human consumption; “hog corn” would be meant as animal feed, which you’d never eat. We did have “Indian corn” for those multicolor decorative corncobs, but I don’t know what you’d call that now, “decorative corn” seems right to me, but I live in California now and I just don’t see that around at all.
Sorry for the false start a few minutes ago. Here's what I started to say.
I grew up in the midwest cornbelt where my grandfather, like all the farmers around him, was a corn farmer. I never heard the word maize until I moved to the Mexico/US frontera where maíz is the common, Mexican-Spanish version of the Taino mahiz Columbus heard, only one of the many words for it in the land where it originated. It's interesting that in those languages where it is a native staple, there are different words for different stages of growth. In Nahautl, for instance, the hard grain is tlaolli, "on the cob" tender green grain is elotl, the growing stalk ohuatl, and the roasted or toasted kernels izquitl. Each stage has its specific uses in maize-based cultures.
I'm guessing that you're not old enough to have heard the 1970s margarine advertisement: "You call it corn, we call it maize." I just looked and apparently it's on YouTube. Interesting about the mahiz.
PS - I *am* familiar with two of these terms through Mexican Spanish! “Elotes” and “esquites” are Mexican street corn, with the former being on the cob, and the latter being cut off the cob and put in a cup!
As usual, the importance of a thing in a region determines the number and specificity of words for that thing in the language. I’m not certain, but maize is the only major cereal crop that indigenous North Americans had access to, so this makes sense!
I’m going ask my Mexican friends whether they’re familiar with any of these specific Nahuatl terms.
I grew up in California of Mexican descent and heritage. I am bilingual too. What is referred to maiz as heard in English in Spanish is called maíz 🌽, pronounced as two syllables. Maíz is found in most Mexican cuisine from tortillas, tamales, pozole (as nixtamal, hominy if you will), elote (paired with carne asada), or in caldo de res, or albóndigas (soup), as a snack topped with crema, mayonesa, Tajín or other. This is why we lovingly call ourselves niños de maíz. I'm sure I missed other foods but there's enough here.
We non-Mexican Americans thank you for introducing the stuff farther north!
I find the popcorn that you can stuff the whole ear into the microwave and come out with a stick full of fluffy white crunchiness a fun novelty, but it's so much cheaper just to buy the kernels.
Mmmm, elote.
Now I'm hungry for corn chips, of which I have 2 kinds -- regular tortilla chips and the entirely constructed Fritos.
I am an American in my 50s and I was today years old when I learned that British people born the same time as me are talking about wheat or oats when they say "corn".
Growing up in Southern England in the '70s and '80s, corn meant 'any cereal grain, particularly wheat' (but definitely not maize/ sweetcorn!). We have corn dolls made from cereal straw, cornflowers growing near cereal crops and cornfields containing any cereal crop ...but not maize/ sweetcorn. I think it might still be similar now, but as well as American films etc, popcorn might have influenced the evolving meaning.
Grew up in U.S. in '60s & '70s here, where a corn doll is a corn husk doll. Although, to be honest, as a little girl I imagined they were made of the corn cob, which we kids also used as swords.
I was raised in Denmark. In Danish, "korn" can refer to barley, wheat, rye, or oats, what Danes call "the four types of corn," "de fire kornsorter." We were taught them in primary school.
Maize in Danish is always "majs." There is no sign whatever of Danes using the word "korn" to refer to maize.
Ack! Born / raised in the states so have never understood why that British corn maiden tradition is called corn when it predates the North American plant being imported. Will call it wheat / grain maiden in my head from now on 🙂
I have heard that the colonists referred to Indian corn and to English corn -- but then you often had to specific which English corn, so it was easier to just refer to it by a specific name.
If you like this post, check out Polyglot Vegetarian's post on <a href="https://polyglotveg.blogspot.com/2023/11/maize-1.html">Maize</a>, with a survey of words for it in historical English (e.g. "Turkey wheat"), European languages, and several indigenous American language families.
... and then there's a corn on the foot: clearly a small hard grain of some kind! And where do we get corny jokes from? Small and hard? Perhaps not.
corny:
Wiktionary suggests it is from “"corn catalogue jokes", reputedly low-quality jokes that were formerly printed in mail-order seed catalogues”;
Etymonline suggests it is because ‘corny’ jokes were unsophisticated enough to appeal to country folk, i.e. corn farmers.
I got a bunion on my noggin just thinking about the corny jokes.
American, born 1990 in New York City. Corn means maize, and I only learned about the UK usage in college history courses learning about the Corn Laws.
Since you mention the phrase "Indian corn," I'll add: when I was a kid, that phrase specifically meant corn cobs with lots of different-colored kernels, especially used decoratively (say, on a wreath you might hang on your door in the fall). I haven't heard it in years, though, presumably because of changing norms around what is and isn't PC to refer to as "Indian" (like how in elementary school we would sit on the floor "Indian style," but today children are asked to sit "criss-cross-applesauce").
Yeegads, now we've culturally appropriated their corn, too. What next? And what are we meant to call it, by the way? "Corn cobs with lots of different-colored kernels" is a bit of a mouthful.
You know, I’ve seen these but haven’t heard them referred to by name in years. I’m guessing “decorative corn” would be appropriate, because it’s nothing you’d want to eat.
That's what I think of when I think of "Indian corn."
I'm English and in my 40s and "corn" means wheat - "an ear of corn", for example. "Sweetcorn" is maize, although I'll allow "corn-on-the-cob". I don't understand why British English speakers need to say "corn" when they mean "sweetcorn". Just say flipping "sweetcorn" - you're not an American! And please don't get me started on British people saying "gotten". Or the fact that the sodding Guardian - a British newspaper - ran an article about shed wars in "back yards". It's a back garden!! A yard is specifically the paved area immediately by the back door behind terraces.
I'm not just being all "Yanks go home" about it, nor feeling annoyed about the homogenisation of language, but because there are problems with meaning and understanding. If someone British says they're "going to the bathroom", I assume they're going to brush their teeth or shower. We have a plethora of ways to say you're going to the loo/toilet/lav/smallest room, with lots of glorious euphemisms - going for a tinkle, splashing your boots etc. let's not lose that wonderful linguistic variation under the jugganaut of imported US English. It actually makes me sad too that children are being brought up by the telly and YouTube. :-/
*Cue the angry replies. Oh, well*
I'm from the US, in the northern part of the corn-growing region (maize). We have two expressions for corn: sweetcorn and field corn. Sweetcorn is the kind that you eat, like corn on the cob. Field corn is the kind that is grown for animal feed. It has quite a different appearance if you look closely at the kernels. I'm curious what your expression is for field corn, or if you don't have an expression for it because you don't use it?
“Hog corn” is what we used in eastern Pennsylvania, but I have also heard field corn, and that may be the preferred usage in PA by now, too.
The latter.
Hold on, as American an “ear of corn” still just means a whole corn on the cob with the husk… what is “ear of corn” when referring to wheat?
It means the grains of wheat/cereal crop at the top of the stem. So presumably "ear of corn" travelled to the US and the change in meaning of "corn" from cereal grain to maize affected that expression as well!
Here in North Derbyshire, corn is wheat, and actually, grain more generally. Sweetcorn, though tasty enough, is some corporate capitalist aberration. I am unsurprised that our southern brethren have been colonised by the Great Satan. We may be poor but at least we are pure.
I mean wheat etc - I grew up in the East Anglian brrad basket which was full of various grains, but mostly referred to as corn.
Brrrrrrrrrrrread. Blimey, I'll sound like I'm from the West Country! 🤣
(I am a 74 year old English women-for context). Corn for me evokes the image of fields of golden cereals of unspecified type, swaying gently in waves in the wind, before being harvested. It could be barley, wheat, rye, oats or other rarer types of cereal, but definitely not maize (which I called sweetcorn as a child) as it doesn’t look the same at all.
Quite. It's very confusing!!
FWIW, growing up in Pennsylvania, while “corn” meant maize in general. But usually in the context of a rural community, we’d say, “sweetcorn” for corn meant for human consumption; “hog corn” would be meant as animal feed, which you’d never eat. We did have “Indian corn” for those multicolor decorative corncobs, but I don’t know what you’d call that now, “decorative corn” seems right to me, but I live in California now and I just don’t see that around at all.
Agreed - I'd forgotten about sweetcorn!
Sorry for the false start a few minutes ago. Here's what I started to say.
I grew up in the midwest cornbelt where my grandfather, like all the farmers around him, was a corn farmer. I never heard the word maize until I moved to the Mexico/US frontera where maíz is the common, Mexican-Spanish version of the Taino mahiz Columbus heard, only one of the many words for it in the land where it originated. It's interesting that in those languages where it is a native staple, there are different words for different stages of growth. In Nahautl, for instance, the hard grain is tlaolli, "on the cob" tender green grain is elotl, the growing stalk ohuatl, and the roasted or toasted kernels izquitl. Each stage has its specific uses in maize-based cultures.
I'm guessing that you're not old enough to have heard the 1970s margarine advertisement: "You call it corn, we call it maize." I just looked and apparently it's on YouTube. Interesting about the mahiz.
Quite old enough (born 1940) but I took H. Rap Brown's advice and shot my TV in 1967, so likely missed the margarine commercial
I'm old enough—I remember the talking Parkay tub (it said "Butter!" every time you opened it)—but I don't remember that one.
PS - I *am* familiar with two of these terms through Mexican Spanish! “Elotes” and “esquites” are Mexican street corn, with the former being on the cob, and the latter being cut off the cob and put in a cup!
As usual, the importance of a thing in a region determines the number and specificity of words for that thing in the language. I’m not certain, but maize is the only major cereal crop that indigenous North Americans had access to, so this makes sense!
I’m going ask my Mexican friends whether they’re familiar with any of these specific Nahuatl terms.
Now, my mental jukebox will be playing "John Barleycorn Must Die" by the very-English band Traffic for the rest of the day!
I grew up in California of Mexican descent and heritage. I am bilingual too. What is referred to maiz as heard in English in Spanish is called maíz 🌽, pronounced as two syllables. Maíz is found in most Mexican cuisine from tortillas, tamales, pozole (as nixtamal, hominy if you will), elote (paired with carne asada), or in caldo de res, or albóndigas (soup), as a snack topped with crema, mayonesa, Tajín or other. This is why we lovingly call ourselves niños de maíz. I'm sure I missed other foods but there's enough here.
We non-Mexican Americans thank you for introducing the stuff farther north!
I find the popcorn that you can stuff the whole ear into the microwave and come out with a stick full of fluffy white crunchiness a fun novelty, but it's so much cheaper just to buy the kernels.
Mmmm, elote.
Now I'm hungry for corn chips, of which I have 2 kinds -- regular tortilla chips and the entirely constructed Fritos.
As noted above, it sounds like both elote and esquites come from the Nahuatl, which is very cool!
I am an American in my 50s and I was today years old when I learned that British people born the same time as me are talking about wheat or oats when they say "corn".
Growing up in Southern England in the '70s and '80s, corn meant 'any cereal grain, particularly wheat' (but definitely not maize/ sweetcorn!). We have corn dolls made from cereal straw, cornflowers growing near cereal crops and cornfields containing any cereal crop ...but not maize/ sweetcorn. I think it might still be similar now, but as well as American films etc, popcorn might have influenced the evolving meaning.
Grew up in U.S. in '60s & '70s here, where a corn doll is a corn husk doll. Although, to be honest, as a little girl I imagined they were made of the corn cob, which we kids also used as swords.
I was raised in Denmark. In Danish, "korn" can refer to barley, wheat, rye, or oats, what Danes call "the four types of corn," "de fire kornsorter." We were taught them in primary school.
Maize in Danish is always "majs." There is no sign whatever of Danes using the word "korn" to refer to maize.
Corn to me, means my favourite snack: corndog
😋
Ack! Born / raised in the states so have never understood why that British corn maiden tradition is called corn when it predates the North American plant being imported. Will call it wheat / grain maiden in my head from now on 🙂
Oh, I'm a maize person. (American)
I have heard that the colonists referred to Indian corn and to English corn -- but then you often had to specific which English corn, so it was easier to just refer to it by a specific name.
Compare low Saxon (Achterhoeks, line from the song, Wiekens Volkslied):
Wej dan nog ‘t verschil tussen weit en ander koren
Know (cognate: wit) then yet the difference between wheat and other corns.
Kiwi here, born '65, 'twas always in reference to sweet corn...or a callous callus...or the corners of a hat...
If you like this post, check out Polyglot Vegetarian's post on <a href="https://polyglotveg.blogspot.com/2023/11/maize-1.html">Maize</a>, with a survey of words for it in historical English (e.g. "Turkey wheat"), European languages, and several indigenous American language families.
Oops, the comment field doesn't like HTML. Let's see if this works:
https://polyglotveg.blogspot.com/2023/11/maize-1.html
In Sweden, “korn” means barley.