A question to consider about people who think em-dash use in a text means that an AI machine wrote the text:
Do such people even read much? Do they read much offline or read texts or books that were originally published offline or published years or decades ago or longer?
Lynne Truss' Eats, Shoots and Leaves tells us that the dash – I don't think she calls it the em-dash – is her favorite punctuation mark, because of its flexibility of use.
I 100% second this sentiment, except for the clammy part. :)
It looks as though you do the same thing I do, which is to keep a space on each end of the em-dash. I know that's not the official way to use it, but for me, it dispels any implication that the dash is trying to hold together the words on each side as a single unit.
As a person in technical fields, the vocabulary and even writing style in this article were a breath of fresh air. Words and expressions I forgot since I stopped reading classical literature, and my brain was really happy for it.
Fun fact, as I’m not a native English speaker, I can confirm: the dogs indeed “latră” in my native tongue (Romanian).
Well, yes and no. They "guits" (technically, guitsa, with that last vowel pronounced like in the first a in "around"), but only children would say "guits-guits". Romanian is not really a reduplicative language, and I think only weakly onomatopoetic - not more than other romance languages. Japanese for example is a much better example for onomatopoeia, from my experience.
This is awful. I had to hold back on my writing skills in my final dissertation because I didn't want examiners to think I used AI. I can't believe I'm afraid to write properly.
I wonder if attaching photocopies of pages from classic works (as a kind of supporting documentation) would help in such cases. "Look, here's Jacques Barzun, and here's Nathaniel Hawthorne, and here's Thoreau, and here's Schopenhauer, [et al.] — all using the falsely accused dash. Tell them they're wrong or lay off, please."
Well before people equated em-dashes with AI – indeed, before AI was even a thing – I equated the em-dash with American writing. It seems to me that in the US, writers use the em-dash (without spaces) where a British writer would use an en-dash (with a space at both ends). Thoughts?
Ah, interesting! I hadn't thought of that, but I doubt it - I'm British and they actually all happened to be Folio Society editions (typeset in London) so I'm assuming not?
Oh, now that's interesting. I just mentioned higher up in this thread that I put spaces around my em-dashes. I didn't know that maybe it was a British versus American thing. To me, without the spaces, the em-dash appears to imply that the words at each end of the dash are meant to be taken as a single unit, as with the hyphen. Spaces fix that.
I think that for everyone who writes this has been a horrendous experience. I also thought about not using them, but then that would lead to worse writing, so no. Long-live the em-dash and the full use of punctuation.
Great article as usual - and I’m looking forward to the Shakespeare piece, too. I have definitely had the self-censoring impulse, and the same defiant return to the style and precision that I intended. For me the whole thing is like the middle school bullies who taunted me for using words they didn’t know. I would like a word that captures this feeling - sadness, anger, defiance all in one. At least rebellious em-dashers like me know we are in excellent company.
Some of the author's re-anglicizations are kind of cool if not used to replace already-adequate Latinate words. Maybe we should use them for things that don't yet have words, like your feeling---which I remember quite well from my own school days. How about "unmeetly"? I'm pretty sure the feeling was unmeetly.
“But the em-dash is part of your heritage as a writer of the English language. Don’t let it be taken away from you!” This is the permission that I needed today. As one who loves a good em dash, thank you!
That's enlightening. I'd wondered why I find AI writing so annoying: I'd attributed the lack of originality, perhaps, rather than any particular stylistic tic. But of course it's the massive overuse of such tics regardless of the text, trapping out the banal with massively grandiose phrases.
Especially on sites like LinkedIn where it seems to be more common than spellcheck.
I recently got back on Hinge, and 3 people asked me if I was real because my english sounded AI like, I was offended haha
I think it's because it's not my first language, so I think more about what words to use, but it made me self-concious. I have never used AI in my life and it scares me to think people believed I did, so I understand that "panick"
I've always used space-hyphen-space, and I admit I've curtailed it's usage because of the AI stigma. I didn't know about the em-dash—had to "google" how to type it—but now I'll start using it.
Languages evolve by being spoken. If AI is based on nineteenth century English, it will soon be unintelligible. A doctoral dissertation from the mid-twentieth century is written for acceptance by certain intellectuals and is difficult for the lay person to understand. Today’s PhD dissertation is written to impart knowledge and is much more accessible.
Changes in language usage is why dictionaries are constantly being updated. I have been watching foreign language films and am surprised at how many English words and phrases have invaded so many different languages—even English idioms that I used to have to explain to students who were learning English. How will AI programs keep up with these constant changes?
Somehow I hadn't heard of em dashes until it became known as an LLM trope. I use lots of en dashes though, but I call them hyphens. Guess I need to review my English knowledge. Now I want to use more cool obscure words.
A question to consider about people who think em-dash use in a text means that an AI machine wrote the text:
Do such people even read much? Do they read much offline or read texts or books that were originally published offline or published years or decades ago or longer?
Lynne Truss' Eats, Shoots and Leaves tells us that the dash – I don't think she calls it the em-dash – is her favorite punctuation mark, because of its flexibility of use.
Here you are using the n-dash, which she might be referring to as well
You can take my em dashes from my cold, dead — and, quite likely, clammy — hands.
I 100% second this sentiment, except for the clammy part. :)
It looks as though you do the same thing I do, which is to keep a space on each end of the em-dash. I know that's not the official way to use it, but for me, it dispels any implication that the dash is trying to hold together the words on each side as a single unit.
Your proposal is acceptable.
As a person in technical fields, the vocabulary and even writing style in this article were a breath of fresh air. Words and expressions I forgot since I stopped reading classical literature, and my brain was really happy for it.
Fun fact, as I’m not a native English speaker, I can confirm: the dogs indeed “latră” in my native tongue (Romanian).
And the pigs guits-guits, don't they? I had a Romanian study partner in undergrad Linguistics on the day we studied onomatopoeias.
Well, yes and no. They "guits" (technically, guitsa, with that last vowel pronounced like in the first a in "around"), but only children would say "guits-guits". Romanian is not really a reduplicative language, and I think only weakly onomatopoetic - not more than other romance languages. Japanese for example is a much better example for onomatopoeia, from my experience.
This is awful. I had to hold back on my writing skills in my final dissertation because I didn't want examiners to think I used AI. I can't believe I'm afraid to write properly.
I wonder if attaching photocopies of pages from classic works (as a kind of supporting documentation) would help in such cases. "Look, here's Jacques Barzun, and here's Nathaniel Hawthorne, and here's Thoreau, and here's Schopenhauer, [et al.] — all using the falsely accused dash. Tell them they're wrong or lay off, please."
Well before people equated em-dashes with AI – indeed, before AI was even a thing – I equated the em-dash with American writing. It seems to me that in the US, writers use the em-dash (without spaces) where a British writer would use an en-dash (with a space at both ends). Thoughts?
I recently read both Alice in Wonderland books and an Agatha Christie, and there were em-dashes EVERYWHERE
Ah, but had they been re-typeset for an American readership?
Ah, interesting! I hadn't thought of that, but I doubt it - I'm British and they actually all happened to be Folio Society editions (typeset in London) so I'm assuming not?
I like the en-dash with spaces for technical and journalistic writing but the em-dash for more literary pursuits.
My understanding has been that the en-dash is meant to stand as an indicator of "everything in between" the preceding and following items. As in:
12 - 19
12pm - 2pm
Mon - Friday
A - Z
And that the purpose of the em-dash is to set off a parenthetical insertion from the main body of the sentence.
Oh, now that's interesting. I just mentioned higher up in this thread that I put spaces around my em-dashes. I didn't know that maybe it was a British versus American thing. To me, without the spaces, the em-dash appears to imply that the words at each end of the dash are meant to be taken as a single unit, as with the hyphen. Spaces fix that.
I'm glad to know this bit of context you gave.
I've found the opposite. British style guides recommend writing with an em dash whereas I'm pretty sure AP recommends it with the space
I think that for everyone who writes this has been a horrendous experience. I also thought about not using them, but then that would lead to worse writing, so no. Long-live the em-dash and the full use of punctuation.
Absolutely.
Great article as usual - and I’m looking forward to the Shakespeare piece, too. I have definitely had the self-censoring impulse, and the same defiant return to the style and precision that I intended. For me the whole thing is like the middle school bullies who taunted me for using words they didn’t know. I would like a word that captures this feeling - sadness, anger, defiance all in one. At least rebellious em-dashers like me know we are in excellent company.
Excellent sentiment. Totally agree.
Some of the author's re-anglicizations are kind of cool if not used to replace already-adequate Latinate words. Maybe we should use them for things that don't yet have words, like your feeling---which I remember quite well from my own school days. How about "unmeetly"? I'm pretty sure the feeling was unmeetly.
“But the em-dash is part of your heritage as a writer of the English language. Don’t let it be taken away from you!” This is the permission that I needed today. As one who loves a good em dash, thank you!
Couldn't agree more.
I think I prefer "unmeetly weird" to "outrageous fortune." Does that make me weird? Or, indeed, unmeetly?
That's enlightening. I'd wondered why I find AI writing so annoying: I'd attributed the lack of originality, perhaps, rather than any particular stylistic tic. But of course it's the massive overuse of such tics regardless of the text, trapping out the banal with massively grandiose phrases.
Especially on sites like LinkedIn where it seems to be more common than spellcheck.
Super interesting read.
I recently got back on Hinge, and 3 people asked me if I was real because my english sounded AI like, I was offended haha
I think it's because it's not my first language, so I think more about what words to use, but it made me self-concious. I have never used AI in my life and it scares me to think people believed I did, so I understand that "panick"
Or it could just be that you are writing intelligently, and they aren’t used to seeing it!
That's a lovely way to put it, thank you !
Same here. I can’t abandon my em-dashes,
so I insert minor spelling mistakes in my drafts to show that its not AI — idk if it wosrks!
LOL
I've always used space-hyphen-space, and I admit I've curtailed it's usage because of the AI stigma. I didn't know about the em-dash—had to "google" how to type it—but now I'll start using it.
Awesome. The real em-dash will be much more readily distinguished from the hyphen.
Languages evolve by being spoken. If AI is based on nineteenth century English, it will soon be unintelligible. A doctoral dissertation from the mid-twentieth century is written for acceptance by certain intellectuals and is difficult for the lay person to understand. Today’s PhD dissertation is written to impart knowledge and is much more accessible.
Changes in language usage is why dictionaries are constantly being updated. I have been watching foreign language films and am surprised at how many English words and phrases have invaded so many different languages—even English idioms that I used to have to explain to students who were learning English. How will AI programs keep up with these constant changes?
Somehow I hadn't heard of em dashes until it became known as an LLM trope. I use lots of en dashes though, but I call them hyphens. Guess I need to review my English knowledge. Now I want to use more cool obscure words.